Curse

Obey The Cat · Apr 04, 2007, 11:22 PM // 23:22

I really hope anet takes notice of this and won't nerf soul reaping in this way.

Swift Thief · Apr 04, 2007, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilhelm

Great job, nerf the most popular TA/RA skill, and then buffed some shitty hex removal, that nobody used in the first place.

Where's the nerf to Shadow Prison?
Where's the nerf to Soul Reaping?
Where's the nerf to Paragon Armor?
Where's the nerf to Kill Count?

1.) Shadow Prison already got nerfed.
2.) Soul Reaping did get a nerf.
3.) 80 AL is fine. Paragon skills suck enough.
4.) That should be removed.

Wilhelm · Apr 04, 2007, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swift Thief

1.) Shadow Prison already got nerfed.
2.) Soul Reaping did get a nerf.
3.) 80 AL is fine. Paragon skills suck enough.
4.) That should be removed.

1 - Oh yes, that's why Shadow Prison, and the usual attack chain is not used anymore.

2 - Soul Reaping will be the same problem a week from now.

3 - 80 Base AL for a character that is more or less a caster?

Sidheyuna Aetheris · Apr 04, 2007, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Ok. First of all, I'd like to state, for the record, that I only play PvE. Secondly, that the Necromancer class is THE reason I play this game. Yes, I have other characters beside my necro. Yes, I enjoy playing them too. However, my necro's my baby...and I'm a little apprehensive right now with the word on Soul Reaping.

Yes, I've read Gaile's notes on the reason behind the proposed change, and I understand that there is a problem that needs to be addressed in PvP with the mechanics of SR. I just think there is a better way to address these problems rather than implementing a change that is, honestly, going to really tie the hands of necros in PvE. I'm not saying it's going to make things impossible, but my worry is that it'll do something worse...make it so frustrating to play that I won't be enjoying it anymore. I don't want to sound like all of the "OMG OMG EVERYTHING IS RUUUUINED" doomsayers out there, but I do want to admit that this worries me. I'd be much happier if the energy gain from spirits was removed entirely and/or energy gain from minion deaths cut to 50%. Neither, I think, would handicap the Necro in PvE as much as this time-based system will, but, from what I understand, it'd still address the problems with exploitation of SR in PvP.

Also, I know some people have cited Gaile's statement that player deaths would result in more net energy gain as a tradeoff, but I don't think that's the case. I think that statement was referencing a comparison to the energy gain from spirit deaths, not a proposed change to the grading of the energy gain from higher ranks in the attribute. Even if it was, the statement was "player deaths"...not "enemy deaths" or "foes"...and, quite honestly benefitting more from "player deaths" in PvE is, um, kinda dumb. Yay, I get more energy..but...oh yeah, half my team is dead and here come those stooopid torment demons to finish me off.

Lots of people, I know, play MM in PvE relatively exclusively. Maybe they trade off now and then to play an SS or something even more original, but, oh wait, several key support hexes there have also been axed. I don't mind the energy cost in Reckless Haste, although, bearing in mind that SR mechanics'll be changed and I won't have an army of minions to buff my energy management....crap. Oh yes, and the increased recharge time on Price of Failure...won't matter....I won't have energy to use it more often anyways.

I think maybe if they considered buffing up the few skills in the Soul Reaping attribute a bit I might be happy with the new mechanics..maybe Signet of Lost Souls triggering at <75% health rather than <50%? I know, it'd probably cause the entire world of PvP to spiral into chaos and then oblivion, but, um, I just want to still have fun, ok?

I'm not going to /pout and then ragequit over this...well..maybe I'll pout a bit. I always liked the fundamental idea of Soul Reaping, garnering energy from the soul's release from it's earthly cage (yep, I'm a DORK), kinda hard to be true to that concept while I watch the clock and wait for my next e-dose. ANYWAY, those are my thoughts. I'll wait to see how it all plays out and how the adjustment to the system'll influence my experience of the game before I make my final call. So far, though, I'm more than a little worried.

Peace out.

Mysterial · Apr 04, 2007, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Does-it-Matter

There you go. Any one of those skills will kill an assassin's chain, and many of them are spam-able.

When an assassin's chain consists of exactly two attack skills that are hitting 33% faster than normal (and in some cases only have to hit one out of two tries) that "penalty" is nearly nonexistant.

Quote:

On behalf of all assassins everywhere... I apologize that we are doing what we were created to do.

What you were created to do was a bad design decision and the game would be better off if they killed it. I really hope their plan for fixing the overpowered direct-to-offhand skills isn't to make the 3-skill chains even more retarded.

Fishmonger · Apr 04, 2007, 11:32 PM // 23:32

I SHALL NOW SPEAK FOR THE RITS!! =P

Brutal weapon- yay! now warriors and sins like us for other reasons than to make their weapons pretty!

Consume Soul- somehow i feel like I'm going to make my spirit spammer bretheren in RA miserable with this + echo gaze of fury XD

Spirit's Strength- w00t! I didn't expect this buff, but i like it! *pulls out daggers of xuekao*

I wish wep spells could stack, but I know we would be the most overpowered class in GW if they did

back to healing =)

Simath · Apr 04, 2007, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Well it looks like I"ll be needing to use a different build for my monk. It's too bad I really liked ZB although the skill didn't get nerfed too bad. But with the change to GoLE it looks like one more energy management skill used by monks goes down the drain.

Zinger314 · Apr 04, 2007, 11:35 PM // 23:35

On paper, the Soul Reaping nerf may not be as bad as it looks, even for MMs. It just means that you'll get your army up slower. But once you get 10 minions, the SR nerf won't have as much of an impact.

However, the nerf will dissuade me from using double MMs. (right after I spent 30k to gear him, too.) I guess I'll just have to use 1 MMs + 2 SF for Hard Mode...

But that just means that every MM will need to use [skill=text]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill]

Expect a detailed post after the update is released.

Rakeman · Apr 04, 2007, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilhelm

1 - Oh yes, that's why Shadow Prison, and the usual attack chain is not used anymore.

2 - Soul Reaping will be the same problem a week from now.

3 - 80 Base AL for a character that is more or less a caster?

Oh, so your goal is to make the skills no longer used? Very good philosophy. Maybe if all goes accordingly, every skill will be nerfed to the point that it is pointless to use any of them.

And show me one caster that has a "[weapon] Mastery" attribute.

noocoo · Apr 04, 2007, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightblade

No...ZB's power doesn't come from the energy. It's because this is the only 200 heal that can target self

I strongly totally super agree with this.

Also, I wonder why the recharge time of Reversal of Fortune has 2 seconds only, and the one of Reveral of Damage has to be 6 seconds.

Pwny Ride · Apr 04, 2007, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Well done, the whole soul reaping nerf killed half the PvE energy heavy necromancer builds! Just wondering, why does a-net insist on ruining their own game in the name of balance?

So far balance has caused more trouble than its worth. This entire making people seem equal in PvP issue, its honestly a load of rubbish. Mesmers took another hit (although, even with MoR, diverson will have a cast every 6 seconds, which is easily manageable), the hex interruptions where a strain enough.

They wherent exactly cheap for the 10 seconds, and the 6 makes it harsh. At least when GW:EN comes out, we wont have to worry about PvP interfering directly with PvE gameplay.

Well done A-nerf.

Inde · Apr 04, 2007, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Insults, whether to an individual or the community as a whole, will not be tolerated. Please keep your posts constructive and on topic.

Does-it-Matter · Apr 04, 2007, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysterial

When an assassin's chain consists of exactly two attack skills that are hitting 33% faster than normal (and in some cases only have to hit one out of two tries) that "penalty" is nearly nonexistant.

Blind: 90% chance to miss. More times than not, that will stop an assassin cold in its tracks. And it's not like taking a "cause blind" skill makes you take something for JUST assassins as it shuts down most of the offensive capabilities of four other classes.

Anything in the right situation is powerful, and if you don't expect/plan for that, it will get the best of you.

Kaleban · Apr 05, 2007, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Assassin:

Assassin's Remedy: now works on the next 1..10 attack skills.
Black Mantis Thrust: decreased Energy cost to 5.
Dancing Daggers: increased damage to 5..35.
Golden Lotus Strike: decreased recharge time to 10 seconds.
Jagged Strike: increased Bleeding duration to 1..15 seconds, decreased recharge time to 1 second.
Malicious Strike: increased damage to 10..30.
Recall: changed functionality to "While you maintain Recall, nothing happens. When Recall ends, you Shadow Step to the ally you targeted when you activated this skill."
Sharpen Daggers: now works on the next 1..10 attack skills.
Signet of Toxic Shock: decreased recharge time to 15 seconds.

These changes are part of larger movement to make the Assassin's lead-to-off-hand attack combination a more attractive option. If these changes are successful, future balance updates will continue to improve upon these types of skills. Recall was a balance concern because it was difficult to recognize (there was no actual Enchantment on the teleporting player), and because those facing Recall could do nothing to prevent it. Now it can be removed in order to send the Assassin back prematurely to where he started.

Warrior:

"Shields Up!": decreased duration to 5..11 seconds, and reduced armor bonus to +24.
Barbarous Slice: increased damage to 5..30.
Crippling Slash: now also inflicts Bleeding.
Dwarven Battle Stance: increased attack speed boost to 33%.
Heavy Blow: decreased adrenaline cost to 5 strikes.
Mighty Blow: increased damage bonus to 10..40.
Savage Slash: decreased recharge time to 15 seconds.

"Shields Up!" was proving to be a frustrating form of passive defense, and since one of our overall goals has been to reduce passive defense and support active defense, we felt it important to reduce the raw power of this Shout. Barbarous Slice was an inferior sword attack that we wanted to improve, and we felt that increasing its damage was a way to make it a more likely option for causing Bleeding. Crippling Slash also now causes Bleeding in order to improve its versatility and to make it more likely for players to equip it. We decreased Savage Slash's recharge time to put it more in-line with other melee interrupts, and Dwarven Battle Stance was given a full 33% attack speed bonus both to take more advantage of the interrupt quality and so that it acts as a full-fledged attack speed increase skill. Because of Heavy Blow's conditional nature, we reduced its adrenaline cost slightly, and lastly, Mighty Blow was given improved damage to put it on par with the recently improved Strength attack skills.

You know, I'm looking, and looking, and looking. When, OH WHEN, is the Assassin going to receive an IAS skill, or IAS tacked onto an existing skill? Can someone please tell me? Its nice that every other weapon based class in the game has inherent IAS, and that they can use caster classes for useful secondary skills, but why not the Assassin? I do like the change to Jagged Strike, a 1 second recharge lead is very nice, I see that making its way to many skillbars.

But for the love of all that is good and right in the world, give the Assassin some IAS. Most builds make use of it, and right now, the versatility of the Sin suffers because people want IAS but have to always have to pick another weapon based secondary to get it, rather than logically allowing a class noted for speed and agility to swing tiny weapons faster than a plate armored juggernaut swinging a six foot long claymore.

Pwny Ride · Apr 05, 2007, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

You know, I'm looking, and looking, and looking. When, OH WHEN, is the Assassin going to receive an IAS skill, or IAS tacked onto an existing skill? Can someone please tell me? Its nice that every other weapon based class in the game has inherent IAS, and that they can use caster classes for useful secondary skills, but why not the Assassin? I do like the change to Jagged Strike, a 1 second recharge lead is very nice, I see that making its way to many skillbars.

But for the love of all that is good and right in the world, give the Assassin some IAS. Most builds make use of it, and right now, the versatility of the Sin suffers because people want IAS but have to always have to pick another weapon based secondary to get it, rather than logically allowing a class noted for speed and agility to swing tiny weapons faster than a plate armored juggernaut swinging a six foot long claymore.

Yea i do agree, its a little bit of a shame >_< but for now people are ussing BoA, and that seemse to work. Can't really call it a cooke cutter, since its one of the only options that assassins have without it having major drawbacks

ensoriki · Apr 05, 2007, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Ummm 2 things about the entire Shadow prison thing

1. SHadow prison is not the problem, if you think shadow prison is the problem...my god...your an idi-...

Shadow prison snares and shadow steps, elite mmm its same as dark prison with a lower recharge, in whole if your using the Black line you use an IAS with it because running will easily ruin it if you have both black skills on it....and if you have all 3 lol.

The problem relys in the IAS which allow a chain that is not really that strong to become valuable.
A sin with no IAS isn't hard to stop as a monk its the same as a warrior or ele spike.

And please read the word ASSASSIN, as in Kills people. They don't have a death strike or anything , they can't even kill you with super ease with the amount of counters and the current stop assassins meta.

Stop whining if you want to complain redirect it to the IAS's.
_____________________

ANyhow, A/rt Brutal weapon get maybe +12 +20 damage on that and use twisting fangs which is about +19 dual attack... = +39 damage that hits twice to + 78...which deep wound = 178 damage... and since you had an offhand that hits around 220 damage. if you used unsuspecting strike first thats 300 damage.....wooo hoo!

Not A Fifty Five · Apr 05, 2007, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Did Izzy get interested in pvping? hehe.. cause I actually like this skills update. It actually.. well.. balanced things ya know.

Cathode_Reborn · Apr 05, 2007, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Face it, SR was overpowered but it's still effective. I play my nec often in pve and running low on energy was extremely rare.

You can't mindlessly spam 25energy spells anymore. A pve nec needed no e-management skills yet had an energy bar that was always full.

I'm not happy with the Price of Failure nerf, but it was also needed. Would've been nice if they at least increased the recharge to 15secs er somethin. Mark of Fury might see some use on my warrior

Poisoned Heart still seems like a lame skill.

kvndoom · Apr 05, 2007, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rakeman

The avatar changes are great. Did you *EVER* see anybody use one of those buffed Avatars in high rated PvP? I sure as heck didn't.

Hate to tell you, but you probably still won't. The other forms lack utility.

We all know how powerful Grenth is. And Melandru, even without +health, has an incredible effect in condition immunity.

But after those two, there's nothing left.

As a skill, Sprint > Avatar of Balthazar. And saves the elite spot. Who cares if you run fast if you're still as susceptible to snares as anyone else? Maybe fix it so your attack skills are disabled but your attacks can't be blocked?

Blind > Lyssa. Prot > Lyssa. Seriously, this offers nothing elite-worthy. It's conditional +damage. Yay. So is Savage Slash/Shot. Maybe give it a scalable % chance to interrupt.

Changing targets > Dwayna. If the Dervish uses that, then the Mesmers and Necros will just go hex someone else. Now say, if the skill was worked "any spell you cast that targets an ally removes one hex from that ally," then it would rock. Unfortunately that would make it as imba as pre-nerf Grenth, so it is doomed to suck forever.

shanaya · Apr 05, 2007, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Well, I for one am breathing a big sigh of relief that the dervish has not suffered a major nerf with this update. I've been tweaking and improving my dervish builds and have now got them to the point where I am really, really happy with them, so I was kind of expecting them to take a hit. Its a shame Avatar of Melandru has suffered as it is the only avatar I use regularly...and to think it started out with a +200 hp boost!

Now, someone help me with the maths for Avatar of Balthazar and Avatar of Lyssa. If they last for 90 seconds with 12 points in Mysticism then I work out they will last for 130 seconds with 16 points....!!!! Can this be right?